356: Reasons to Run

0:00

This is the real life runners podcast, episode number 356. Uh, reasons to run.

Angie: 0:29

What's up, Runners? Welcome to the show today. Kevin and I were talking about the start of cross country season next year. So we're not even close to it, but as the school year is ending, Kevin has been recruiting cross country runners because we start our training for cross country over the summer. Um, track and field is kind of, you know, Ending nation. Well, yeah, wrapping up right

Kevin: 0:52

in Florida high school. Track and field is winding down.

Angie: 0:55

Yeah. So it's winding down, wrapping up, starting to get towards the end of the season and so is the school year. I mean, we only have about a month left of school, a little over a month, which is so crazy. So we are starting to look ahead to next cross country season and obviously summer training that goes along with that. So Kevin's been trying to recruit different cross country runners. So. Um, he came home yesterday and was telling me about his recruiting efforts and who might join the team and different people that he's talked to. And he made a comment that really struck me. And I was like, we need to do an episode on that because that applies to us real life runners as well outside of high school rec that are just running recreationally. We're not on any sort of official team per se, um, but it definitely applies. So do you remember what you said to me? That, uh, spurred this idea?

Kevin: 1:48

No. I mean, I have, I have a general idea, but I definitely do not remember the exact line. I was hoping you had it written in the outline. It doesn't

Angie: 1:56

have to be the exact line, but kind of the, the general.

Kevin: 1:59

So here's, here's where it came from. Like the conversation that we were talking about, one of my, my pitches is I have signs up all over school, but I didn't just put up like one sign, like come run cross country and I put a sign up. Some of them, they have different taglines. So one of them is like, find your potential because there are kids that are like, yeah, let's, let's do something cool and amazing. And another one says literally five K's and fruit snacks because we pass out, you know, Welch's fruit snacks at all the, all the meets.

Angie: 2:23

And they love them. Like that is really one of the things that the kids love. about cross country is the fruit snacks.

Kevin: 2:30

Right. And so literally if we're bringing in kids for that, great, because ultimately that's going to create essentially a healthier person. Maybe they develop an exercise routine. Are they necessarily going to help us go and compete at the state meet? Maybe, maybe not. But if we could change their running trajectory, that could literally change the next decade upon decade of their life.

Angie: 2:51

Right. So I also want you to share with them, like your conversation with The other teacher, you had a conversation with another teacher about this. Cause he came up to you and was like, really five K's and fruit snacks. And what was your response to him?

Kevin: 3:05

Well, yeah, it, it, it works for some of the kids and that's really what it is, is I need to figure out what works for each kid, because I'm not trying to be like, ah, you're allowed onto the team, but you're not, we don't have cuts on our team, like everybody is welcome, but then you have to figure out what that person wants to get out of the team. Because. Everybody doesn't want the same goal just because I think that we should be all partying at the state meet Doesn't mean that everybody who signs their name onto the like I'd like to run cross country list Also wants to go party at the state meet some of them just want to come hang out with their friends

Angie: 3:39

Yeah and one of the thing that you said to him that I really liked too was I need different types of kids on the team, and that's what I think really struck me and that I really wanted to talk about today because, yes, we're talking about our high school cross country team here, but it also applies to you as a real life runner because there are going to be different times in your running journey where running is going to be going to mean something different to you. It doesn't need to always be the same. So today's episode is really designed to help you understand your reasons for running for the love of running, like to find the joy in your running. And You can be like these things can change that's the thing that I really want you to understand is that they don't have to be Your reasons to run don't have to be the same as everyone else's reasons And they also don't have to be the same as your reasons a year ago or five years ago like they can change in different cycles and in different seasons of your life and one of the things that Kevin said to his co worker When he was talking about this was I need the kids that are just going to be the cheerleaders on the team. I need the kids that are just going to be supporting the other kids. I need the kids that are going to push hard and really try to increase the talent level of the team. Like there are different roles that everyone plays on a team and You are one person, but running can play different roles in your life. And that's really what I wanted to dive into today.

Kevin: 5:00

Yeah. I mean, the, the diversity of the team really helps the strength of the team by like, if that one person who's out there to just like really, really push themselves and grind it day upon day, they need to recognize that there's other people out there just having a blast, just having fun. They don't necessarily hit a personal best in the, in the race that weekend. And then they're immediately laughing and playing with their friends and they're fine. The athlete that's pushing themselves so hard has to see that that's another way that you can run and that's an option That is an option like that that exists and the more diversity we have on the team The more the people on the team can see oh, there's other ways and reasons to run I don't have to just run for my particular reason like the outline that we've got set up here I run for all of these reasons and I think that because I run for all of them I And I don't bounce from one to the next like, well, today I'm choosing option one and then tomorrow I'm going to choose option three as my motivation. I can sort of feel all of them simultaneously. Maybe I lean a little more towards one, but I embrace all of them simultaneously. I think that is why I enjoy running so much.

Angie: 6:10

I agree with you. And it took me a while to get there. And so, you know, I think you, you were definitely way ahead of me when it came to this, I definitely had running in like a box and a silo of like, this is what it's for. Um, but I also have been able to. Do exactly what you just said, kind of do all three at simultaneously. So if you listening to this podcast, if you're not there yet, that can be one of your goals and it doesn't have to happen right away. It took me years to do this. Okay. You guys like, so I don't want you to think that just because we tell you that it can be this way and you're like, uh, that's not how I feel. That's, there's nothing wrong with you. All right. There's nothing wrong at all. Your running journey is beautiful just as it is. We just want to help you. Improve it a bit. Okay, so and I really love what you said there because it's so true like there is that kid on the team That takes things so seriously and when they see the other people having fun and they can maybe lighten up a little bit, it's amazing how that can actually improve their running, right? Because we often talk about how there are some people that put so much pressure on themselves that it actually ends up working against themselves. Oh,

Kevin: 7:16

a hundred percent. If you run a bad race and then you spend the next like three, four, five days trying to Just wallowing in how bad that race was and just pushing yourself down. If I wasn't good enough now, not only did you run a bad race, but now you've defined yourself as a bad runner. Who's possibly, if running is such a big part of your identity, now you're a bad person. The pressure the next time you step to the line is going to be so huge that beyond the challenge of racing a 5k, you have to overcome all of this like self doubt and the pressure of, if I do it badly again. I'm really defining myself as not a good runner and the ability to just take a breath and be like, actually running is just one part of me. And another part of this is, is running to hang out with my friends. And that allows the next race to just be a little bit lighter and well, it's easier to go faster when it's a little later.

Angie: 8:08

Yeah, exactly. So the first reason that you might run would be to challenge yourself. Okay. So this would be. The more competitive type of person or personality. Maybe you wanted to get into running because you need a challenge. Maybe you are someone that used to be a part of competitive sports when you were a kid like I was. Um, I was definitely into volleyball, basketball, softball. Like I loved the challenge. I loved all of that. Um, you know, pushing yourself hard. The issue here is if you come from that kind of background, or that's the kind of mentality that you had, um, and you have this mentality of, I'm coming into running to challenge myself, it's a great way to come in, alright, don't get me wrong, at the same time, it can sometimes lead to problems, because if you are that very competitive person, um, Oftentimes we see these kinds of people do too much too soon and that leads to injury and then that really stinks, right? Because like you want to challenge yourself and that is great. But when you're trying to push harder on every single run, thinking that you need to challenge yourself, you know, more is better. I just need to push harder. No pain, no gain. When you're coming in with that mentality, it often very, very often leads to injury.

Kevin: 9:25

I mean, I think this is, I mean, this was me to challenge myself. This is still me very much. I love to lean into the running challenges me, but it doesn't have to challenge me every single day, pushing myself to my hardest capacity. Like, I think this is the benefit of having, you know, short term goals, long term goals, something in there where trying to attain that goal is the big challenge. And then recognizing that On the way to that goal, I have to have hard days. I have to have medium days. I have to have easy days. I need full blown recovery days because in order to try and strive for that big challenging target out there, I need to get there in a productive manner. And it took me a long time to get to that point.

Angie: 10:08

Yeah. And I think that it's really about. So learning how to reframe things and understand that pushing hard is not the only thing that equals challenging. Like for some people, going easy can be the challenging thing to do, especially when you want to push yourself harder or you think that pushing harder is going to be the best way for you. Like, and then you start listening to our podcast or other people out there that know what the, what they're talking about as well. And you start to hear about. 80 20 and how a lot of your runs should feel easy most of the time and how you should be incorporating other things like strength training or mobility work into your routine. But maybe that's the hard part for you. Maybe the running isn't the hard part. Maybe going out and pushing yourself hard isn't the quote unquote hard part. Even though physically it's hard mentally, you really enjoy that part. Maybe the harder part for you mentally Is wrapping your head around, slowing down and going easy on those days, maybe the hard part is for you to actually start to do strength training and mobility work instead of just going out to run,

Kevin: 11:11

which becomes super important as we become a little bit of a older athlete. Like it's, it's not when I was in my twenties, the extra challenge of, Oh, I'm just going to add an extra mile or two to my run during the week. Didn't phase me at all. And I do, I didn't have to suddenly add in an extra mobility routine before the run started or after it ended, I would. Put on a pair of shorts, head out the door and be like, ah, I did seven last week. I guess I'll just do nine miles this week. And it didn't phase me. I just ate more at dinner. That was my answer to the thing. Like that was, that was the fix. And now I'm like, Oh, I'm currently, I did four last week. So maybe I could stretch it to four and a half. If I add in like a 10 minute mobility routine beforehand, like it's, I'm just coming at it differently because I know the big goals that I have, I'm going to I've got to plan everything out and that is challenging to not grow as quick as I want to. That is mentally tricky for me.

Angie: 12:07

Yeah. And I think that that's a mentally tricky for a lot of people that fall into this category of I want to challenge myself. I want to see what else I can do and is really still trying to find that balance of easy and hard and understand that like sometimes the easy stuff is the challenging stuff and that's okay.

Kevin: 12:26

Yeah.

Angie: 12:26

All right. All right. Number two. The second reason that people often start running is to improve your health, okay? And often times what I see when people get into running to improve their health is inconsistency, or they end up quitting when it gets hard. Because running doesn't always feel good. Right? Like this is just part of the process. Like running does not always feel good. We want running to feel good. We want running to feel easier. That's one of the things that we love helping runners to do. And we're very successful with that. But. I want to run to get healthier. That goal is too nebulous. And that's part of the issue here. But especially if you are healthy right now, right? How are, how do you really define health? That's part of the issue here, right? People define health in different ways. Some people think that healthy is, you know, a certain heart. health. Some people think it's blood sugar numbers. Some people think it's a certain weight on the scale. Some people think it's the way that they feel in their body or shortness of breath. There's so many different ways that you can define health. So, the first thing, if you are someone, that wants running to help you get healthier, you have to define what healthy actually means.

Kevin: 13:39

Yeah, I mean, you love talking about this is figure out where you actually are. If your goal is all rooted in health, I mean, what's your suggestion? Go get a whole blood panel and try and figure out what markers you're actually checking and which ones you might actually be able to improve and affect. Due to a new exercise routine.

Angie: 13:56

I love that idea. I really do. You know, I mean, I am the person that goes to my annual physical every year. And it's not because I have any problem. It's, it's because I want to make sure that I don't have any problems. I want to make sure that my, my blood work is looking good. Like that's one of the main reasons I go. Like, there's a lot of people that don't go, you being one of them, um, to their annual physical last year. Yeah. After how many years? I went last year. Exactly. But like, there's a lot of people that don't go, they're like, I'm healthy, like, I don't need to go to the doctor, but like, I like to go on an annual basis and get my blood work done just to check in and make sure all of my numbers are looking good. And so I do think that that is a really good thing for us to do, especially when we get over 40 years old, like when you get over 40, things start to shift and change in your body. And so. It's always good to have that baseline of where you are and a very simple blood panel can help you to do that

Kevin: 14:54

Okay, so you'd argue that is a pretty good idea like a decent starting point because then you could Go through an exercise routine for a while I mean you're talking on an annual basis, but you could probably get blood work Without a doctor recommending it? Yeah, you can. I don't know this process. Yeah,

Angie: 15:09

nowadays you can't. Nowadays there's lots of things you can do online that just have the, you know, different health and wellness packages, like, so you can, you can definitely do your own blood work if you don't have insurance or don't want to go through insurance or, you know, don't want to do all this. You can go on lots of different websites and. Just order blood work for yourself. I think you can even do it on Quest now. They have Like at Quest Diagnostics, which is which you know, that's where my I do my blood work through my insurance company But I'm pretty sure that they have like an option now that you can just self pay for a certain test without Even without a doctor's prescription. Okay,

Kevin: 15:44

that was my question is like, can you just go to some of these? You know, lab workplaces and get what you need. Yeah,

Angie: 15:49

you can nowadays.

Kevin: 15:50

Like I know the companies online that email me on a regular basis of, Hey, have you considered trying this package?

Angie: 15:55

Right. So, you know, define what health is, right? So yes, I think that regular blood work is a very good measure of health. It helps you stay on top of certain things. I think that Knowing what your weight is maybe can be helpful. I know there's a lot of people put way too much weight on their weight. Good one. Thank you. Pun intended. Um, but

Kevin: 16:17

give it a little too much gravity. If you will. There you

Angie: 16:19

go. Like I personally don't even know how much I weigh right now. I can't tell you the last time I weighed myself and I used to weigh myself on a daily basis. Um, but I found that, um, That wasn't very helpful for me mentally like I didn't like because then on the days that you know the weight did go up a little bit I made it mean something when the weight went down. I made that a positive thing and like I didn't want that association either positive or negative around my weight because ultimately the weight did. My weight doesn't matter. It's how I feel in my own body. It's how I feel in my own skin. It's how I feel. You know, as long as my blood work is good, as long as my other measures of health are good, my weight is just a number on the scale,

Kevin: 17:00

but it is an objective number that you can put out there,

Angie: 17:03

right? It's a data point. And that's why I like, but also I'm not currently overweight, right? And so overweight, that word is obviously subjective as well. So weight can be. a good data point for you to use. I don't want it to be the only data point for you to use. And I want to really stress that because if you're just getting into running to lose weight, there are so many better options for you to choose. Okay. Running is not the best way to lose weight. I will say that and I will yell it from the rooftops. Okay. If you really want to lose weight, it needs to be nutrition based. Okay. It does not. Exercise is not the best way to lose weight. Nutrition is the best way to lose weight. But I also don't want you to just lose weight for the point of losing weight. It, weight is just a number. Okay? What does the weight represent? Okay, what is the health underlying the weight? Is that weight leading to other issues like, Diabetes or high blood pressure or heart disease or increased risk of heart disease, right? These are things that I think it's more important to look at and the weight can play a factor in that It doesn't always but it can

Kevin: 18:10

okay. So if weight plays a factor in that then checking in On a, on a regular basis with weight rather than saying like day to day or God forbid, like hour to hour, but just kind of having a general idea of the trend that it's going in when you really kind of step back over the course of like several months, does it look like your weight is relatively stable from one day to the next? It's not really going to be all that stable, but over the course of. You know, what did it average out to this week versus the next week versus the next week? You can probably pick out a a broad trend line over a longer period of time

Angie: 18:45

Yeah, I mean and again, I just I really don't want people to put so much stock in in the weight But like

Kevin: 18:50

all right, so blood work

Angie: 18:51

blood work is good. Um muscle mass, right? Like I think especially again as we get older our muscle mass our lean muscle mass tends to tends to decrease. So are you building muscle? And if you are building muscle, guess what? Your weight is probably going to increase, which is why I don't like to put a lot of my, you know, emphasis on actual weight because I would rather be muscular, which is what actually happened to me is I started building a lot of muscle, which is why my weight was going up. But in my head from years and years of, you know, Thinking that I was overweight and having body image issues and having to deal with all of that psychologically. What, like, I still, you know, the whole number on the scale thing, it's just not helpful for me to be tracking that on a daily basis. a normal basis, especially because my goal is to put on muscle. So when I put on muscle, the weight is going to go up. And I really think that that is a good goal for us as we are over the age of 40 is to increase the amount of muscle that we have on our body. And hopefully, you know, people always like, Oh, well, if I build muscle, then I'll automatically decrease fat. That's not what actually happens again. That's more nutrition based, but improving your lean muscle mass can. Um, just help you in so many ways, um, with metabolism, with heart health, with just normal daily activities. There's a lot of benefits to building up muscle mass. So if that is your goal, right, to, to improve your health, to build muscle, running is actually not the best way to do that, right? Running is not the best way to build muscle, weightlifting, strength, strength training is the best way to do muscle. And that's also going to help you improve your running. Running is a great way to improve your cardiovascular health and your endurance. And again, these things can be measured. Um, I mean, there are medical tests that you could do, but you don't really need to do medical tests. How about like going out and how, um, how far are you able to run? How long are you able to run without feeling like you need to take a walking break? How winded do you get on a scale of one to 10 if you're walking up the stairs, um, or if you're walking really fast outside, like all of these things are good measures and much more functional in our daily lives.

Kevin: 21:02

Yeah, like just actually as you go through your day being like, Oh, I did this physical activity. I, I had to take the garbage from inside all the way out to the curb and I was winded and needed to stop halfway and then before I could walk back in, that's a, it's a solid measure of health of maybe you could, you could work on building some endurance and some strength.

Angie: 21:24

Yeah. Like I'll never forget one of the, um, one of our clients, this was a couple of years ago and it was such a random post in the Facebook group, but it stuck with me because it w it was one of those moments when I thought to myself, this is why we do what we do. Right. And it was, um, our, our client guy, shout out to guy. I don't know if you still, if you're listening to the podcast, but he put up a post about how. What we do inside the Real Life Runners Academy with the training plans and the strength training and all the things Helps in our regular life and he was talking about how he was getting Christmas decorations down out of the attic and he felt Strong he felt balanced. He didn't he wasn't out of breath and it was just great Like, okay, I got to go get the decorations out of the attic now. And for a lot of people, especially attics, you know, tend to be smaller places with like, where you have to kind of like bend and crawl and kind of put your body in weird positions to get. Um, to get the boxes down depending on the size of your attic. I mean, I know it's like that down here in Florida. I don't know if attics up north are, are bigger.

Kevin: 22:25

Depends. It

Angie: 22:26

depends, yeah. Depends on your

Kevin: 22:27

house. I know.

Angie: 22:27

I feel like, cause, well, but anyway. So, but the point is, like, when you're stronger and when you're able to do all these things, then that just becomes a quick thing you gotta do. Versus, like, oh my gosh, now I need to take a break because I just spent, you know, a An hour getting things out of the air or out of the attic and had to take a break after every single trip up and down the ladder.

Kevin: 22:49

Right? Like you can bring the directions down and then go, yes, you could then do something with the decorations rather than have to just have a downtime for an hour. Now, on the other hand, maybe you're not the biggest fan of putting up the Christmas decorations. So you, you bring them down and you slide them out to your family and you're like, and there they are. Maybe you take that approach also. Yeah.

Angie: 23:11

Right. And then you can focus on the outdoor decoration. Yes. Then you'll put up the lights on the outside.

Kevin: 23:15

Yes. They're not necessarily going to fall and break all over the place. They just have a mild fear of everything breaking every Christmas.

Angie: 23:22

Really? Yeah. Everything

Kevin: 23:23

breaking.

Angie: 23:23

That's so funny. That's where it

Kevin: 23:24

comes from. All right. So improving health. There's so many ways that we kind of. Vaguely define this like this is part of what you have. The issue with is it's a very nebulous goal. So it's really tough to say if you're getting it right. One of the reasons that I like the whole idea of improve your health is I think just having a regular exercise routine whether it and That's why our programs include the running and the strength training and mobility all put into it because I think that having a regular fitness routine, whatever that involves for you, is a way to improve your health long term.

Angie: 24:02

Absolutely. And You know, for us, it includes running for, for other people. It might not include running and that's totally okay. There are other ways to improve your cardiovascular health outside of running. Running is just the way that we all choose to do it. And you listening to this podcast probably choose to do it because it's something that we enjoy and we want you to be able to enjoy that for the rest of your life. We want you to be able to run longer and have, you know, You know, running be a really healthy part of your lifestyle, because ultimately that's what you're talking about here is building a fitness routine and building a lifestyle that is going to allow you to be active and healthy for the rest of your life so that you're not limited by your body. You know, that was one of the big reasons that we even started this podcast and. Our company is because I'm a physical therapist and I would just see so many people in the clinic with these chronic health conditions that could have been fixed. Probably, I would argue to say, and this is not research based, this is my own experience, 95 percent at least of those conditions. Could have been prevented with simple lifestyle changes like nutrition and exercise and that's really, you know, what healthy is like, how, how do you define health, but see if you're coming into it and you don't have that clearly clearly defined, then when running gets hard or if something gets in the way, you're like, well, I'm already healthy, you know, like I am healthy, like I don't have any heart problems. I don't have any diseases. I'm not on any medications right now, but Right now when you're 40 or 45, you know, how healthy do you want to be when you're 65? That's always what I like to think about. I think about my future self. You know, what am I doing for that future version of me when I'm 65, 75, 85 years old? I'm going to look back and I'm going to thank 43 year old Angie for taking care of herself so well that I'm still mobile. I'm still agile. I'm out on the track setting records for the octogenarians. Right? Yes. There we go.

Kevin: 26:04

I like it.

Angie: 26:05

Yeah.

Kevin: 26:05

The Masters, sometimes the Masters stuff rolls into Florida because, you know, everybody retires in Florida anyway, so it's convenient to have the track meet here. I'm

Angie: 26:14

not training for my 43 year old age place finish, age place, age group finish right now. I am training for my. 90 year old age group finish. That's going to

Kevin: 26:23

be a blazing fast hundred. It's going to be awesome to watch. Here you have that short little stride that just like did it, did it, did it. It's going to be super fun. Um, I'll be doing the long distance 400 at the time. It'll be good. Um, but.

Angie: 26:36

That's my man over there.

Kevin: 26:39

Yes, yes, he's still wearing the short shorts. He wore those in his forties also. Um, the idea of quitting when it gets hard. Hopefully it's

Angie: 26:46

not the same pair.

Kevin: 26:47

I don't think that elastic is holding up. Um, when you talk about improving health and quitting when it gets hard, I think because some people associate this doesn't end well. feel comfortable with this is unhealthy and part of running gets your body to a place because you stress yourself. So then you're sore the next day. And people are like, well, if I wasn't running, I didn't get sore. I ran. Now I'm sore. I don't want to do this. I think that that is a dangerous spiral to get into because there are parts of, of your fitness where you have to push yourself. Strength training strains the body so that you can actually come back stronger from this running strains the body on some days, some days it's just real nice and recovery and pleasant, but some days it pushes yourself so that you can actually get stronger so that you can run further so that you can improve yourself from where you were to where you're heading. And that can lead to soreness. And when you're like, Oh, I just want to be healthy and I feel good today. And when I ran, I didn't feel good the next day. It leads people to quit very quickly on that one.

Angie: 27:50

Yeah, exactly. Because they have more of a short term view on what, how their body's feeling right now versus that longterm view of how they want to feel in the future. Because that's hard for us as humans. Like just, and if, if this is you. Again, there's nothing wrong with you. Okay. This is the normal way that our brains are wired. Our brains are wired for comfort and for immediate gratification. And right now, in the moment, it doesn't always feel good to exercise, right? Like, but we have to keep in mind that long term benefit and what we're setting ourselves up for. And, uh, allowing for more delayed gratification because that's really what we're going for with all of this. And that's really what health, I think, means in, in this sense.

Kevin: 28:36

Yes, at some point, I mean, we can combine these things of health can lead to the ability to continue to challenge yourself for years and years. It's just that those challenges kind of change of what is going to become the big challenge for you. But you can't achieve those challenging things if you don't maintain health for years. I think it's still possible that I make Team USA. It just might be in, you know, Masters of 80 to 85. But it'd be cool to have a Team USA jersey.

Angie: 29:01

Heck yeah, let's do it. Alright. Number three, the third reason that a lot of people run is to have fun, right? To enjoy it and This is again, one of those double edged swords because running is not always fun. Like there are times that running doesn't feel great, that we are going to go out there and do the hard things because that's how we get better. That's how we challenge ourselves. That's how we are going to get healthier and actually build some of that muscle and some of that endurance. There's going to be times that it doesn't feel great. And then you're going to be tired and you have to push through it. And so when people have this mentality of like, Running needs to feel good and I want to have fun all the time and I want to enjoy it. It can sometimes lead people to not trying hard enough or not doing the hard things because they're not fun. And when that happens, when we're not doing the hard things, oftentimes we see a lack of progress or even decline because hard things aren't necessary if we want to see improvement.

Kevin: 29:59

And you get to define what fun is. And that's where it gets a little tricky is people are like, well, if it doesn't feel great right now, then it's not fun. Like, this is the idea that like sitting down on the couch and watching a movie and eating a bowl of ice cream is fun. So anything where I'm like, Going to physically challenge myself goes in the other direction of that. So it must not be fun. You get to define what fun is. I define it a little different than other people. But, you know, we all get to define what fun is.

Angie: 30:27

Yeah. And there's people out there. I forget if this is like an actual term or if this is just terms that I've heard from various people. Podcasters or whatnot, but there's like level one fun and level two fun, right? And three yeah, do you know what do you know how to define them?

Kevin: 30:40

Yeah, fun is level one fun is like this is immediate fun. I'm super happy and I like doing this thing right now Yeah, and level two fun is this is not necessarily Super enjoyable in the moment, but when I look back on it, that was amazing like I've never gone skiing, but I think this is a great example that I've heard explained to it. If, if you get into skiing and you do like a really challenging slope, it might be almost terrifying in the moment, but the fact that you make it down the mountain, and it's challenging, and there's a chance that you could even get like hurt along the way, but at the end of it, it's like, And I think this is a good way of people defining level 2. Did you end up with an awesome story, even though in the moment it was a little bit nerve wracking? That's level 2 fun.

Angie: 31:28

Okay, and what about level 3?

Kevin: 31:29

Level 3 fun is the most interesting one. It's not necessarily, well, it's never fun in the moment. Like, level three fun does not feel fun while you're doing it. And afterwards, you even think to yourself, I don't know if I should have done that. And yet, a small part of you thinks, I should do it again.

Angie: 31:50

Well, I mean, that's kind of, so it's similar to level two. It's like level two and a half.

Kevin: 31:53

Yeah, it's, it's level two without necessarily good logical thinking.

Angie: 31:57

Okay. So I think that my hike in Echo Canyon last week was definitely a combination of a lot probably more level one and level two, not so much level three. Um, most

Kevin: 32:09

people don't do three.

Angie: 32:10

Yeah. Um, so, okay. So I chose this hike and if you guys follow me on Instagram, um, go over to at real life runners. Okay. So if you have an Instagram account or even on Facebook, um, at real life runners is where you're going to find us on both Facebook and Instagram. I posted a real, a video, um, yesterday, kind of recapping my hike up camelback mountain in Phoenix, Arizona. And I was not prepared for how challenging the, the trail was actually was. It was rated as extremely difficult, um, which I didn't know going into it. So that was fun. Um, and I wore a pair of worn out running shoes cause I didn't want to get my new shoes dirty and definitely understood. I understand now why people have actual hiking shoes. Um, but it was quite challenging. It was like bouldering. Like we were, I was using like. Both my hands and my feet to climb up these huge rocks to, like, balance myself up these up the side of this mountain. Um, and it was definitely, there were moments where it was just really fun, um, because I like doing hard things. And so that's fun to me. And then the, the level two fun of like, this is also really hard right now and I'm, I'm not enjoying this exact. But like overall I was still enjoying the whole experience. So what would you say? Would you say that that's like a level one or a level two or kind of a combination of

Kevin: 33:32

it's two. Yeah. Because I

Angie: 33:33

was like genuinely joyful doing this, even though it was really hard. And there were a couple of points where I had to like stop and let my heart rate come down a little bit. And I was like, thank goodness I'm a runner. Thank goodness. I have. High levels of cardiovascular endurance because this would be so much harder if I did not if I was not in as good a shape As I am.

Kevin: 33:54

Yeah, it's it's level two. It's where well you're doing it You're both having fun, but not everybody would necessarily consider that fun of what you're doing. Yes. It's level two.

Angie: 34:03

Okay Yeah, there's definitely people that would not consider that fun, right? Yeah,

Kevin: 34:06

like almost everybody, you know Except for like the lactose intolerant are going to say sitting there eating an ice cream cone is gonna be fun You You know, like that's just,

Angie: 34:15

it

Kevin: 34:17

took you a second to get, but, but that's, there's nothing even

Angie: 34:23

then sometimes, like, so I know plenty of lactose intolerant people that will have the ice cream cone and just deal with the consequences later.

Kevin: 34:31

I don't know if it later is level three, but maybe I shouldn't have done that. I should probably not have, but yeah. So I would say that's two, but part of this is that you've just. The the aspect of I'm doing something that is physically challenging You've wrapped your head around of this is fun at no point Did you think that you were like in danger that you were going to fall off of the cliff?

Angie: 34:54

No, there was a couple points and I felt pretty confident because I just thought I used a lot of my self talk and like my mental strength and mental strategies to be like, this is super fun. Um, but one of the other girls that I was with definitely was like shaking and scared at one point coming down, um, because there was, there's a really steep point coming down and it was like pretty, pretty treacherous, um, you know, for, for some, for some reason. In some point of view,

Kevin: 35:21

so then you know, then you're really looking at two because there's a small aspect of things could go wrong Yeah, but things were gonna go super wrong. Like could she have like twisted an ankle badly? Yes, if she landed really bad Maybe she like actually breaks an arm because she doesn't catch a fall correctly But she wasn't gonna fall off the side of a cliff,

Angie: 35:38

right? Like

Kevin: 35:39

she was gonna possibly

Angie: 35:40

tumble down Yeah, she's

Kevin: 35:42

gonna need to have her arm in the sky for the next few days. But so level two,

Angie: 35:45

thankfully, none of that happened. Right.

Kevin: 35:47

But I don't know how lugs were going to fix this. Like the fact that you had what was lugs, the grip on the bottom of your shoe. Like if you didn't have worn out running shoes, I still don't know that like a new pair of running shoes I don't think would have helped you over like slick boulders.

Angie: 36:00

Uh, I feel like, I feel like it would have, I don't know, I don't know, but like, I, I left, I left that pair of shoes in Phoenix. I just

Kevin: 36:08

think the fact that you're strong and you're able to get yourself up and you can balance yourself in all sorts of directions, like, that is fun for you. Trying to figure out like, how am I going to get up this rock there? I don't really have good grip with my shoes and it's really steep and I have to get up and over this boulder. So you're trying to like Actually playing the thing out. Well, that's fun. I love that. Like,

Angie: 36:27

I love that. Like, I, I think that's so much fun and I love testing my body like that and, and showing myself how strong that I am. Um, and like, yeah, so all of that is really fun. Um, one of the things that I did notice that was really funny. Was my feet like I got of all the things that were sore. It was like my feet that were the most sore because I feel like my feet were constantly trying to grip and they cramped up on me a couple of times. I had to like stop and like stretch out like the bottom of my foot because my toes were like trying to grip because it felt unstable,

Kevin: 37:03

right? Because. All of all of the running that we do on here is on the most stable surface that you possibly can like you're on a road or a sidewalk

Angie: 37:12

right and so I think that's maybe why in my head like better shoes would have been better because my feet were constantly trying to to grip for something so I don't know if there's shoes out there I mean I think they must the the shoes have to be helpful

Kevin: 37:26

I don't think that a new pair of running shoes would have improved your experience. Oh

Angie: 37:30

no, no, no, no. I meant like hiking shoes, like trail shoes. I

Kevin: 37:33

mean, arguably because you kept gripping, you needed something that had like less rigidity than a running shoe that helped you grip the surface better.

Angie: 37:40

Arguably. Mountain climbing shoes. Yeah. So, anywho, okay. So yes, fun can be different things. So challenges can be fun, like for me, um, in, in this mountain hiking. Um, friends and relationships, you know, people make a lot of friends. I have made so many friends through running. And that is a great reason to run and to be a part of running. And, um, you know, to be a part of this amazing community. That's one of the reasons that people love races so much is because they get to be around other runners that understand them.

Kevin: 38:12

Yes, that they get to be around other people that get them because there's a lot of people in runners lives that don't get it. So when you show up at a race and everybody else around you understands, it's the most comfortable environment I have. I don't. Like talking to strangers. I love talking to strangers through the like through this microphone where there's a whole bunch of people that listen to this But they're not actually sitting here. I don't find that frightening at all. But in general, I don't like talking to strangers but at a race I can talk to anybody at the starting line because There's just this camaraderie within the running community that makes sense So I think that definitely falls right under having fun is the huge the huge aspect of running, whether it's within races, within running clubs, whether it's an online, you actually get together with people. However it is having a running community, I think is a huge aspect of the fun. I know we have a lot of people that come back to cross country from one year to the next, to the next, because of the team, not necessarily to chase another PR, but because they just want to get back together with their friends. And that's what everybody's doing on, on Twitter. Afternoons of the fall.

Angie: 39:21

Yeah, a hundred percent. Right. And that's one of the beautiful things about the academy as well. It's like these people all around the world are in there connecting and over something that they love. There's a, there's a commonality, there's running, right? So it's, if, if you don't have the races around you or the running clubs around you, you can find these things virtually as well. You know, there is a lot of running community. There are a lot of running communities out there and groups. Just. Please be careful which one you join and please be careful what advice you accept. Okay. If you are in any of these online running groups, please, I can't stress that enough. Like watch who you take advice from. All right. Like that again, one of the benefits of, of the academy is like coming in and knowing that you have a physical therapist and are running like multiple running coaches here with over 20 years of experience. You know, we have over 30 years of combined experience. That's what I was going to say, just play it safe and join

Kevin: 40:17

our academy. Like that's on it. That's the safe way to go.

Angie: 40:20

This is not supposed to be a sales pitch, but just really, you know, be discerning. Like use a lot of discernment when it comes to online running groups or even in person running groups. Like you can, you can get

Kevin: 40:29

rlracademy. com. Is that the website we're going for? No,

Angie: 40:32

that's not

Kevin: 40:32

even the website.

Angie: 40:34

So anyway, but yes, um, if, if you do want to join reallife runners. com forward slash academy is how you get on the priority list. We're not open right now, but you can sign up for the priority list to, so that you'll know when the doors are open again.

Kevin: 40:47

Find a safe group. You're right. And that's, I think the best one, but I may be slightly biased. Um, I, one of the other things I know it's not on here. I think the best place to put this, they don't

Angie: 40:57

know what's actually on the outline.

Kevin: 40:59

I know, but I'm listening to the podcast thing to you because sometimes I jumped a place and you're like, I didn't write that. I don't know where he's going with this.

Angie: 41:07

It's okay. I'm very good at going with the flow.

Kevin: 41:10

One of the things, and this was a big thing that I had in high school of trying to figure out like why I'm doing this, especially as I was trying to go from being a pretty good high school senior to trying to decide what I was going to do with running after high school, because I was getting recruited by this one college and I was going to walk on at a different college and I was not going to run at all at a different college. Like what was I going to do with running? And then what was I going to do post college with running? Like all sorts of aspects. One of the things that I really. Kind of kept identifying more and more as I moved through high school was like the, the ability to fall in touch to, to connect with something bigger than me, whether it's God or universe, just connecting to nature, connecting to the world around you. I think that that's best put here in having fun because you know there was a thing that we did in in high school about like what's the most beautiful place you've ever seen and to me it was the top of this 10 mile run that we did. It was essentially 5 miles up. You reach the peak. There was no other way down. You just turned around and came back down and the peak hits all of this. Like I had to be remarkably healthy to even get to that spot. I had, it's quite a challenge to get there. I tried to do it quickly. So it wasn't just like, Oh, you know, walk my way to the top of this thing. Like, but there was also the team aspect is we all encourage each other to get to the top of it. It was definitely level two fun because it was not enjoyable as you were doing it to, to climb your way up the very steep climb, but it was the most beautiful thing because you knew. That the challenge that went into getting there one. It was a great view like you had at the at the top of your climb, but To be able to you know, you'd get to the top of this thing Then sometimes the sun, you know that shot where the sun comes through the clouds and you're like, well, okay I'm, pretty sure god's actually just pushing through light at this point in time. Sometimes you'd get that at the top It was it was amazing. So I think that Finding something bigger than yourself is also a good reason to run. And I don't know if a lot of people get into it for that, but I think trying to find that, like that flow. It certainly is something that keeps me going. It's definitely on the list that fun and health and challenge, but something bigger than myself is also on that list. And I don't necessarily head out every day to find it, but it's nice when it shows up.

Angie: 43:37

I am so glad that you brought that up because I couldn't agree more. And I really think that, uh, Running is a way that we can say thank you for that gift, for the gift of our life, for the gift of our body is for like running is a gift. Not everyone can do it. You know, some people can't do it because of physical limitations. Some people can't do it because of, um, socioeconomic limitations, like where they live is not safe for them to go out and run. There are countries where it's not safe for people to go out and run because of physical limitations. War and other things going on. Like there are people in this world that cannot run. And so running is a gift and I think our body and our life is a gift. And I think that running is such a beautiful expression of thanks of gratitude for that gift and for this life that we live in this world that we live in. Um, I'm so glad that you brought that up because I couldn't agree more. And I think that when it also ties in all, all the other things that you just mentioned, right? Like, I think that. Supporting our health, like running is a way that we can say thank you for our health. It's a way that we can challenge ourself to get better because I think that growth is a way that we also say thank you for our life. Um, and there's a lot, it all ties together in that.

Kevin: 44:53

Yeah, I mean when I was in high school, I did Because I was a high school cross country boy. I think we were all required to idolize Steve Prefontaine, and he's got the line that says to give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. And when I started running, that meant push yourself really hard. So I leaned into the first thing we talked about of challenge yourself. And it was like, how hard can I run every day? Did we have a workout on Tuesday? Great. How hard can I come back on Wednesday? And that was, that was my thought is what he meant was push yourself as hard as possible.

Angie: 45:22

That was your definition of best.

Kevin: 45:24

That was best. Yeah. Best was how hard can I go every single day? It drove my coach nuts. Um, he's like, you're going to get hurt. This seems like a bad idea. Um, and pointed it out to me. I, I eventually came around and I evolved and understood that to give less than your best. Over the journey of your running existence to to say I've been blessed with the opportunity to do this and then to Not and that doesn't have to mean that I have to go try and chase down Olympic aspirations But that means that I've got this ability within me. I should Honor my body and be able to go out and move and say, yes, I'm going to continue to push myself and maybe that helps you grow closer to God. Maybe that helps you grow closer to yourself. Maybe it helps you grow closer to the people around you. Whatever it is, you've got this ability within you and the opportunity to do that. Express it to the world. Like some people have the gift to sing and it's just sad if they don't allow that ability to be shared with the world around them because they're not sure if they're going to do it perfect. They don't want to be judged by somebody like, Oh, what if I, I sing, but I don't get a professional contract, share your gift with the world around you, share your gift with yourself so that you can see what is that potential within you. That's why I hung the signs that so find your potential because it doesn't matter what. What that ultimate bar is. It's just a chance to say, I know that I can run. Let's see what's possible with it. So I made that sign, but then I also made the fruit snack sign.

Angie: 46:59

I love that. And I think that is a perfect place for us to end this episode. Um, That was so beautifully said. Thank you for sharing.

Kevin: 47:07

Excellent. Now let's all go get fruit snacks.

Angie: 47:10

All right, you guys, if you like this episode, please share it with your friends, screenshot it, share it on social media. Word of mouth is the best way for the podcast to grow and for us to be able to help more runners. So please share us, um, with a friend, leave us a review and, um, we will talk to you guys next week. And as always, this has been the real life runners podcast episode number 356. Now get out there and run your life.